Talk:Fighter 28/ bard 2/ red dragon disciple 10
Intro Hiya all, Here's a nice dev critter who can hold his own in many fields. He's fun to play and his DevCrit DC is almost as high as you can get point short of max The AB of this build is also 2 points short of the max possible AB for a Strength focussed build buff only with 4 base attacks/round. 2 points short because of no EpicProwess and this build not wel suited not an Half-Orc. Even a Strength focussed 28 level WM won't have higher AB ! let them say otherwise! the stats speak for themselves Allright, a Strength focussed Human 13-Bard/ 17-WM/ 10-RDD BaseAB could have 1 AB and 3 AC higher, but looses 14 feats!, and only has the use of SimpleWeapons. And in order to get a decent weapon feat, you actualy need 16-Bard/ 14-WM/ 10-RDD 26 BaseAB. And that + lower WM levels will get you minus 1 AB and +5 AC. A solid Strength focussed 12-Fighter/ 28-WM would have same AB but looses lots of AC, Feats and UMD skill. :The above is untrue as noted below by '''WhiZard'. --Pimpernell 04:06, February 18, 2010 (UTC)'' All in all, building a character you like is just a matter of personal taste... -Pimpernell 21:38, February 17, 2010 (UTC) "Strength focussed" added by Pimpernell 01:46, February 18, 2010 (UTC) *You do realize that WM28 are the highest consistent fully equipped melee AB builds out there? The highest would be the dex halfling ftr 10/WM 28/Druid 2 in the outdoors (one less AB for ftr 10/WM 28/HS 2 in any area). BAB 30 + 1(size) + 10(all types of weapon focuses up to epic superior weapon focus) + 2(woodland stride) + 13(unbuffed dexterity) = 56 AB before any additions. Give it a +20 weapon and +12 to dex and you get a solid 82AB. WhiZard 00:57, February 18, 2010 (UTC) :*True his AB is 6 points higher if both have +12 gear. But it's NOT a dev critter! i was talking about Str dev crit builds, but maybe i wasn't very clear on that... so i will edit the text. Thx for the insight though. It's a build i never made yet but seems real nice. It also has +12 gear 1 AC more AC without expertise then this build if i'm correct, even with 20 tumble, medium shield and no RDD AC bonus..! Cheers ---Pimpernell 01:46, February 18, 2010 (UTC) ::*But the strength 28WM aren't that far behind. The half-orc (starts 20 str) fighter 10/WM28/rogue 2, for example, has 53AB (full gear is 79AB), UMD, dev crit, and 40 ranks of tumble. The +7AB from the WM superior weapon focus feats alone, outdo the +4AB (from +8 strength) of the RDD + 1(bard song) +1 (magic weapon). WhiZard 02:13, February 18, 2010 (UTC) :::*You are correct. At the price of lower Constitution/Fortitude, that will make 72 AB higher 92 AC lower with +12 gear and a DevCrit DC of 49 lower. i was too quick, to focussed on Strength bonusses and just very wrong..! If those 2 builds would PvP eachother, yours would win if i don't Dev you first. Both need 20 rolls to hit and your crits would rape mine :P I will edit the text in shame. :) thx ---Pimpernell 04:06, February 18, 2010 (UTC) :::*Effectivly this build would be 3 AB less then the one you pointed out. Described in the notes of the article. ---Pimpernell 17:13, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :::*Mmm on another note, a 20 roll isn't a automatic crit and with my higher HP/Fort./Dev.Crit.DC, i'm not so sure who would win... Anyway, the issue was about AB for a non caster strength build. And yours has more AB so, case closed... ---Pimpernell 04:48, February 18, 2010 (UTC) ::::* Not only are those 20's not automatic criticals, they are not criticals ever. A 20 is not an auto-hit on the confirmation roll, so when your opponent's AC exceeds your AB by more than 20, you can't land a critical hit. In this matchup, the devastating critical DCs and fortitude saves do not matter. --The Krit 01:35, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :::::* *sigh* I should stop writing things as they come in my (chaotic)head, and think it realy through first. Ofcourse you're right and the sad thing, is i knew it. I think my brain needs defragmentation :( Thx. ---Pimpernell 14:33, February 19, 2010 (UTC) * O :) just so people won't add melee caster builds with better AB, i know Cleric and Paladin builds can have more AB from the buffs. But this is a pure melee build with at most bardsong this is about having the highest AB possible for a pure strength melee build without any buffs. (And ofcourse, as fairly pointed out below by The Krit, without the bard song buff as well.) --Pimpernell 04:27, February 18, 2010 :* You may want to revise that classification a bit. It's rather arbitrary to define a classification of builds in which only bards are allowed to use their buffs. That's the sort of thing bard lovers use to marginalize the other classes. If you're interested in "pure melee", you should discount all buffs, including bard songs. Eh, it's up to you if you want to define your own classification, but you'll find it easier to defend from naysayers if you stop counting bard songs. --The Krit 01:38, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::*Hahahah, you're absolutly right... I was breaking my head on that myself after the above "attacks" on the subject. I have a tendency to elaborate things to much, so i was'nt sure if i had to write it differently or not. Anyway, i will have to think about how to write it correctly. ---Pimpernell 13:27, February 19, 2010 (UTC) Feat selection How does this build get both great strength and epic skill focus at level 39? Neither of those are fighter bonus feats. --The Krit 01:47, February 19, 2010 (UTC) :*fixed that some time ago but forgot to mention it here. thx for pointing out. ---Pimpernell 20:28, April 29, 2010 (UTC)